1) I agree...stay out of the ring if you are not trained. They are apparently being trained by Aaron. I have no idea as to how far along they are, so I really couldn't give a qualified opinion as to if they are ready to be in a ring. As to Aaron’s responsibility…so long as they are adults or they have some form of parental consent to train, he’s done his part legally and morally.

2) The larger question seems to be more if considering their relative inexperience (because they are apparently being trained by Aaron), should they should be running shows. First…Aaron doesn’t have dictator like powers over these guys, nor should he. How many times have you heard stories about trainers/promoters who give workers rations of pure shit over working for other promotions? His name is Morrison…not Napoleon, Hitler or Stalin. For better or worse, they are going to do what they want to and are allowed to by other mitigating factors (we’ll get into that more in a paragraph or two). The best he can hope to do is prepare them as best he can.

Bear in mind I haven’t seen these guys in action…but my gut tells me that they shouldn't be running shows. Not just due to their lack of experience, but their apparent age as well. Running shows takes a degree of development that few people prior to the age of 25 have gained. In a legal sense though...how the fuck do you stop them? So long as someone is willing to rent them a building and they can download plans for a wrestling ring...that's all they need to be in business. To me however, this brings up another issue I rarely see touched on. SOMEONE has to rent them a building. Shouldn't allowing them to run a show-ESPECIALLY if the group appears to be under 18-fall on the shoulder of the VENUE?

FRW has a 3 year clean track record and running shows I personally have 19 years of experience as a wrestler. All of this is confirmable with a simple call to the NH Boxing and Wrestling Commission. Despite this, several places I or my guys have tried to propose running shows in turn us down before we can get past the first syllable of the word "wrestling" (a lot of that has to do with another group that ran the NH area, but that's a whole other story). So, when an obviously less than professional looking group signs a rental agreement with a building, I get both perplexed and irritated. I compare it to my situation as a roofing contractor. We constantly try to do the right thing with our bids, but very often get undercut by the guy next door who staffs his company with illegal aliens. As I do as a contractor, I place at least some of the blame on the irresponsibility of the owner. In the case of wrestling, whoever is in charge of renting the establishment.

If you hire roofer #2 who magically charged you $4,000 less for the same work as roofer #1 and #3 were going to and 5 guys who speak no English show up in a panel van...chances are something isn't right. For the record; even if the contractor in question carries worker's comp and liability insurance...if something goes wrong, insurance won't cover the illegal alien's comp and there's a good chance it won't cover damage done by them either. In most states, YOU are considered the contractor if you hire guys working under the table...so guess who's liable for covering their pay if they get hurt? YOU ARE.

The same thing holds true for a building manager. Say you run an American Legion. You're approached by someone who looks rather young about renting the building for pro wrestling. Wouldn't you ask yourself how this youngster became a pro at such a young age? Shouldn't you at least ask for some proof of age (as legally, if a Hall has a pre adult sign a rental agreement...they can't hold him to any of the wording in it). At what point do you get curious and ask for some video of his "wrestling organization". Upon examination of the evidence of very young guys and gals smashing into each other dangerously and possibly opening the venue up to a possible lawsuit for allowing underage wrestlers in their building...wouldn't you at some point just say thanks but no thanks?

Mav

A few things to clear up.

1. I run the UWD and I am 23 years old, I am not just a kid.

2. Our ring I purchased from monster wrestling rings, it cost around 5 grand look them up.

3. Our training with Aaron does not differ from the training other indy workers receive. We are 6 months into our training for those of you that are so interested and we are not presenting ourselves as "fully trained".

4. Ages of wrestlers training under Aaron Range from 18-26, no minors.

5. Come to WCWA Saturday night, I'll be wrestling in a tag match with 3 other UWD guys, we were booked by Kevin Landry, come talk to me then face to face if you have a problem with that.

bsullivan wrote:

we were booked by Kevin Landry

Ha.

You don't have to be confrontational.

bsullivan wrote:

A few things to clear up. 1. I run the UWD and I am 23 years old, I am not just a kid.

That's good. For me...I'd have been a little young to run shows at that age, but considering I still act like I'm 12 sometimes, you may be more mature than me.

bsullivan wrote:

2. Our ring I purchased from monster wrestling rings, it cost around 5 grand look them up.

Irrelevant. I could by a Viper, but odds are I'd still crash the mother fucker if I tried driving 130 miles an hour. This is about your qualifications, not about the equipment you use. Any shmoe can buy a ring...that takes money, not training or skill.

bsullivan wrote:

3. Our training with Aaron does not differ from the training other indy workers receive. We are 6 months into our training for those of you that are so interested and we are not presenting ourselves as "fully trained".

The issue most people are having with you is you are charging and promoting your shows as you are. I would, for one, stop worrying about being "fully trained" and worry more about being "adequately trained". 6 months in with Aaron could get you there. Some learn quicker than that, some learn slower.

bsullivan wrote:

4. Ages of wrestlers training under Aaron Range from 18-26, no minors.

Good stuff, glad to hear it.

[quote="bsullivan"]5. Come to WCWA Saturday night, I'll be wrestling in a tag match with 3 other UWD guys, we were booked by Kevin Landry, come talk to me then face to face if you have a problem with that.

Quote:

Then Kevin must think you're far enough along to work shows, and his opinion carries a good amount of weight. I would point out...there is a MAJOR difference between being able to work short matches and having the needed experience to run long matches and be at the helm of a match that goes over 6-8 minutes. As you are running shows with mainly an entire group of fairly green guys...someone not qualified to be put in that position more than likely will. While I normally hate the idea of having a "booker' for a small time show...I would grab Aaron and see if he's interested in doing that for you guys. He's going to have the experience and judgement to look at a card and see potential disasterous matchups. MAV

Ok, Paully, let's continue this here. You obviously have a beef to pick with me, and since no answer to your questions I give is good enough, let me ask you, since you are the expert, what exactly constitutes a "full trained" wrestler and a "real" promotion? As I have stated, what I teach in class must be put to practical use to be fully learned. The best way to put that to use is to work. Chris Candido's words, not mine. As Mav pointed out, my name is Morrison, not Hitler or Stalin. I was hired to do a job, and I believe I am doing it to the best of my abilities. I have some input as to the booking of UWD shows, and since I have been aboard, the general consensus of the people who buy tickets to the shows is that the wrestling is improving by leaps and bounds. It was my suggestion that other talent (Idol, Frankie Arion, etc) be brought in to help make the shows better, and to help the guys learn to be better wrestlers. Do I think they rushed into things here? Yes, and I have told Brenden as such. But, they have a plan and are following through with it, so my job is to see that there is constant improvement to the product, and the guys know enough to keep each other safe. But, what do I know? I've only been doing this for 12 years. Maybe someday I can be an expert like you.

"The issue most people are having with you is you are charging and promoting your shows as you are. I would, for one, stop worrying about being "fully trained" and worry more about being "adequately trained". 6 months in with Aaron could get you there. Some learn quicker than that, some learn slower"

Fall guy first id like to thank you for your replies but id like to see if I can answer this and a few other things that have been gone over in a few threads.Im going to say this stuff and try not to sound to disrespectful to anyone cause its not my intentions.
1.UWD promotes wrestling-not pro wrestling backyard wrestling etc.Do you really think its necessary when promoting our shows to say on the flyer or whatever "Disclaimer UWD has 6 months of training so 12 bucks might be to much to pay for you but worth it for some"THAT WOULD BE UNWISE AND STUPID since most fans that go to our shows dont care.they like our product and its irelivant to then how much training we have .If they like the show they like the show and if they ask us we will tell them.
2.We bring in fans who pay 10-12 bucks and are a hot crowed for the night,some are friends ,some are friends of friends we dont know.Some are fans who know of only us because either other promotions in the area dont advertise as much or the like our more adult orientated style for the shows.Some are people who walk into the elks lodge and see our flyers there and are curious.Bottom line we do a lot of promoting to get people in the doors and most if not all enjoy it adn feel they get their money worth.
3.We all work hard to be trained and run a legit promotion.Our fans have given us the opportunity to buy a new ring and get a warehouse through ticket sales.Thats a feat that a lot of indy feds run by workers would love to accomplish.I dont feel we need to promote UWD as a down graded product like some people suggest because that would be dumb when were doing good if not better as far as a solid fan base goes then a lot of other indys out there.

By their own admission, UWD wretlers have been training for 6 months.

The first show that UWD ran, or at least promoted here on the hammer, was November 24th.

http://www.theburninghammer.com/forum/topics.html-t-15826-highlight-uwd

That is 6 months ago. Does that sound right to you Aaron? How the fuck does that make any sense, to allow kids that you are training to run a show mere weeks (if that) into their training? It's simple. Tell them to fuck off, or train until YOU think they are ready to wrestle on shows, unless you were only in it for the money. If they are ready to do so now, then fine. But there is no way you can support the fact that they were ready to run shows last November.

The Answer To Your Question Pauly. We Begain Traning At The End Of September.

Aaron Came Aboard knowing we had booked that show, it was a stupid idea of us to book that show, i agree. he taughts us how to bump, run the ropes the basics before the november show, so we wouldnt kill ourselfs. That Show, we werent ready to be wrestling no, ill agree, but we still put on a sub par show and sold out the room.

Kevin Landry Was At That Show Also, And commented "it wasnt as bad as i expected"

We were stupid, weve admited it time and time again.

This is long. My new comments stay in standard type. My previous post as FRW Fall Guy are underlined, and Gaulin's comments are quoted.

While I may be guilty of regurgitating an old thread here…I wanted to respond to the following post last week in length and got tied up doing other things. Now that I have a little time, I am going to give it my full attention. To Mr. Aaron Morrison…I apologize in advance if you get insulted by any of this. It is not directed towards you. It is aimed at “Gaulin”. I think this guy is doing you a disservice by leaning on your good name to add crediblity to himself that appears to be undeserved.

Gaulin- Up until this post, I had pretty much supported you running shows. This last post of yours, however, reveals that you have a few things to learn.

"The issue most people are having with you is you are charging and promoting your shows as you are. I would, for one, stop worrying about being "fully trained" and worry more about being "adequately trained". 6 months in with Aaron could get you there. Some learn quicker than that, some learn slower"

Quote:

Fall guy first id like to thank you for your replies but id like to see if I can answer this and a few other things that have been gone over in a few threads. Im going to say this stuff and try not to sound to disrespectful to anyone cause its not my intentions. 1.UWD promotes wrestling-not pro wrestling backyard wrestling etc.Do you really think its necessary when promoting our shows to say on the flyer or whatever "Disclaimer UWD has 6 months of training so 12 bucks might be to much to pay for you but worth it for some"THAT WOULD BE UNWISE AND STUPID since most fans that go to our shows dont care.they like our product and its irelivant to then how much training we have .If they like the show they like the show and if they ask us we will tell them.

A) You don’t promote pro wrestling? Then what exactly are you trying to promote…Shakespeare in the park? Are you claiming you are not pro wrestling? If not…why the hell are you advertising shows here to begin with?

History is filled with examples of renaming things to soften or to mitigate negative reaction. George Carlin points this kind of new wave horseshit out perfectly when he does his skit on “Shell shock”. Shell Shock was the term used for soldiers burned out on the battle field. Over the years, the term changed several times to make it sound nicer, and like a different problem. It went from Shell Shock to Battle Fatigue to Operational Exhaustion to the current Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Problem is...it’s still the same fucking thing. Changing the name didn’t change what the fuck it was. The whole reason the name was changed was an attempt to classify it as something different so as to avoid being looked at in a negative light. Sounds close to how you are trying to sell UWD.

B) Of course it would be, in your words, “…unwise and stupid” to put that disclaimer on a flyer-FOR YOU, FINANCIALLY. I would suspect attendance might drop if you came out and-heaven forbid-paying customers had a more accurate view of your band of non-wrestlers.

C) When the HELL in ANY activity or occupation is a lack of training irrelevant? How’d you like an apprentice urologist to perform a vasectomy on you? How about a dentist filling your cavities who only went through ½ of the required schooling? Maybe you could have the court stenographer defend you in court rather than a bar-qualified attorney?

That has to be one of the stupidest fucking statements I have ever read on this board. How little respect do you have for-never mind guys like me who have been doing this for years-but newer guys who make a heart and soul investment into perfecting their craft; guys like Frankie Arion , Shane Sharp, Jason Blade, Kid Mikaze or any number of others who bust their nuts not just on shows but hustle their ass to seminars and sacrifice countless hours preparing, training and honing their skills?

Quote:

2.We bring in fans who pay 10-12 bucks and are a hot crowed for the night, some are friends ,some are friends of friends we dont know. Some are fans who know of only us because either other promotions in the area dont advertise as much or the like our more adult orientated style for the shows.Some are people who walk into the elks lodge and see our flyers there and are curious.Bottom line we do a lot of promoting to get people in the doors and most if not all enjoy it adn feel they get their money worth.

A) So…you’re a good promoter. I never argued that point. Being a talented promoter is a very valuable skill to have. To me…caveat emptor-charge whatever you can get for tickets. More power to you.

B) “Adult Oriented Shows”. Using the universal translator aboard the Starship Enterprise, I think I can reasonably assume that is something akin to what most people would refer to as “hardcore” wrestling. The only other thing that would come to mind would be an on stage gang bang . I’ll assume the former for now, me not being familiar with your particular product. First…I thought you didn’t promote pro wrestling. I may be old fashioned…but I could have sworn a hardcore show was still SOME form of pro wrestling.

Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t “Hardcore” usually entail dangerous spots and a lot of shit with weapons and tables? If I’m getting the general gist of things, what you’re openly admitting is you have guys at entry level whose training, in your words, is “irrelevant” out there doing dangerous shit to each other. The quality of Aaron’s training aside…I sincerely doubt you and your merry band of non-wrestling pro non wrestlers are at a stage of development that has prepared you for this.

I’m sorry if hammerlocks and front face locks and takedowns bore you…but you don’t run a fucking marathon without building up to it first. Trust me…you’re corresponding with a guy that has quite a collection of both visible and non-visible scar tissue from this shit. Wrestling is dangerous enough without adding under prepared guys throwing each other on concrete and playing with light bulbs. Learn the craft first before you get to take shortcuts. Like any shortcut on a back road, it’s easy to get lost, and then the people of “the Hills Have Eyes” get you…or in wrestling, you fuck up and end up looking like one of them.

Quote:

3.We all work hard to be trained and run a legit promotion.Our fans have given us the opportunity to buy a new ring and get a warehouse through ticket sales.Thats a feat that a lot of indy feds run by workers would love to accomplish.I dont feel we need to promote UWD as a down graded product like some people suggest because that would be dumb when were doing good if not better as far as a solid fan base goes then a lot of other indys out there.

So let me get this straight;
-You don’t promote pro wrestling
-This means for some unknown reason, you are being trained by a pro wrestler so you can not wrestle on non wrestling shows.
-What you do promote is a so far unnamed activity that bears at least a passing resemblance to “Hardcore” pro wrestling, with the amount of training the participants have received being irrelevant to the safely of the entrants, the crowd and for your own pockets.
-Despite all this avoidance mechanism jargon as to not being pro wrestling, you advertise your non-pro-wrestling adult themed/gang bang related product on an wrestling board and compare your non-wrestling wrestling promotion to other wrestling organizations in the area

Wow…there’s enough bull shit there to fertilize my wife’s garden for 15 years…and my head hurts trying to follow your logic (never mind from attempting to muddle through your somewhat lacking literary prose).

Gaulin, you come off like a con man. You are attempting to divert attention that you’re product isn’t up to snuff and the guys doing it are for the most part not ready to be doing the things you have them doing. I don’t care what you call what you do; I also don’t care how well you sell it to other people. Tons of people bought houses in the last 5 years on sub-prime rate loans. The real estate market is now falling apart because of it, meaning-JUST ’CAUSE IT SOLD GOOD DOESN’T MEAN IT WAS GOOD OR RIGHT.

I think you would be well advised to not bother selling it here-especially if you’re going to be over sensitive when experienced observers and wrestlers call you on your shit. You do an enormous disservice to the guy who is training you. Worse, when you attempt to peddle your cheap wares here, you are trying to fool people who have seen way too much shit over the years to be blinded by your convoluted attempt to sell them the monorail. We've seen the one in Shelbyville...Springfield doesn't need one.

In short…please go insult someone else’s fucking intelligence.

FRW Fall Guy
AKA Mav
AKA Maverick Wild
AKA Scott C. Despres

You know, for a second there I thought these UWD guy's were doing the right thing by getting training. But, upon further review and a little help from Gaulin and Mav's posts I must re-think this.

1) You're getting trained, that's a good thing, but I wonder, is that enough?

I don't think it is. Just because you're trained doesn't mean that you're going to use that training for the good of the business. Just because you know how to bump doesn't mean you're going to put the hard work necessary to become a "professional". There's so many guy's out there right now that were "trained" but have no clue on what it's about to be a professional wrestler. I also think this problem stems from the amount of "trainers" there are out there. There used to be a time when you'd be hard pressed to find one trainer per state. Now you can basically find a guy in every city. Also, just because you have a few months of training doesn't mean you should be working shows or heaven forbid "promoting" shows. This is a big reason professional wrestling is a shell of its former self, it has no standards anymore. You scratched together $5000 for a ring, so that automatically makes you a promoter? You bought kickpads and bike shorts from Highspots.com, that makes you a professional wrestler? The UWD seems to be like alot of places in New England right now, "play wrestlers". Guys in their early twenties, never payed any amount of dues, started "working" shows before they were even trained and only care about putting videos of their cool spots onto Myspace.

2) You don't promote your shows as "pro-wrestling"?

Mav pretty much covered this ignorant statement as perfectly as you can.

3) Hardcore

As far as hardcore goes, haha, good luck with that. Throwing yourself through tables, smashing each other with chairs and of course the obligitory singapore cane(every show needs a singapore cane), that will get you real far. Six months in the business and you're doing "hardcore" wrestling? That tells me that your training has gotten you nowhere and you shouldn't be anywhere near a ring, I don't care if you own it, stay far away from it...

Chalk this up to just the same old indy B.S. Guys that have no business being in the business, making a mockery of it and slowly but surely killing it. In a year these guys will be sick of playing wrestler and they'll be gone, and the real professionals will be left to try and clean up their mess.....

this thread brings the lolz

hatorade wrote:

this thread brings the lolz

I hope it satisfies that deep down body hate.

Michael_R_Giusti wrote:

This is where talking is supposed to take place, right?

Absolutely, bickering and disagreement should be allowed as long as it doesn't spin into threats. Telling people to shut their mouths is silly.

Also to Hatorade, to say someone has to be "fully trained" or can't be on a show isn't a good statement to make. Without removing what little bit of magic curtain is left in the business or on this board, a person can be on his or her way to training and still fill a number of spots on a legitimate show. That's all I'll say about that.

Plus "fully trained" probably means something different to Bob, me, Mav, Matt West, Aaron, and you.

bsullivan wrote:

A few things to clear up. 1. I run the UWD and I am 23 years old, I am not just a kid. 2. Our ring I purchased from monster wrestling rings, it cost around 5 grand look them up. 3. Our training with Aaron does not differ from the training other indy workers receive. We are 6 months into our training for those of you that are so interested and we are not presenting ourselves as "fully trained". 4. Ages of wrestlers training under Aaron Range from 18-26, no minors. 5. Come to WCWA Saturday night, I'll be wrestling in a tag match with 3 other UWD guys, we were booked by Kevin Landry, come talk to me then face to face if you have a problem with that.

You shouldn't be running wrestling shows. 6 months of training doesn't qualify you as a someone who should be running wrestling shows. I've been wrestling 7 years, and I know that I shouldn't run wrestling shows.

Imagine if the only thing you needed to get into Harvard, Yale, Columbia, or Princeton was the money. Not the grades, or credentials, just the money. Paris Hilton would have a fucking doctorate.

Your confrontational nature also suggests you are too immature to run a wrestling show. You are the owner of UWD, as such you need to conduct yourself in a professional manner. Telling people to say something to your face in the way suggested could cause you serious problems.

What I'm suggesting to you is, you aren't ready to be doing what you're doing. And that's that. You disagree with me, and that's fine. Nothing I say on the Burning Hammer will affect your decision.

If you are ever on a show with me, or go to a show I'm on, introduce yourself to me. I will tell you "to your face" that I think you're making a mistake. I won't be hostile. I suggest you aren't hostile either. It's unnecessary, foolish, and will do more harm than good.

*golfclap*

just to clear some things up, "gualin" has nothing to do with the running or premoting of the U.W.D. hes merely a wrestler, so dont take any thing he says about promoting of the product with a grain of salt.

aemfreak wrote:

just to clear some things up, "gualin" has nothing to do with the running or premoting of the U.W.D. hes merely a wrestler, so dont take any thing he says about promoting of the product with a grain of salt.

i think you have that saying backwards. if we dont take what he says "with a grain of salt" that means we should take it very seriously.

either way, the other couple of kids posting seemed to have echoed a similar attitude. so it's pretty easy to associate one for the other.

ah, kids nowadays.

If my post was actually read correctly you would understand I meant we promote wrestling like every other indy fed .our flyers dont say backyard or pro wrestling on them.Uwd fans know they are going to see a wrestling show.Its a different product that has pro wrestling technical stuff mixed with hardcore.
As far as training goes I sure would like to know at what stage do the wrestling schools teach hardcore chair shots etc. so by saying at this stage were not ready for it is stuff you have the learn on your own and suck it up."maybe fans like us because we are willing to sacrifice and give everything we have ,every match"I still hate it when people think they know where we are at with training and how the atmosphere of seeing a uwd show is without actually being there.I respect the hell out of aaron and it seems like a few people want to make me look like a piece of shit to stir up trouble.
Now even though i have no power in running theese show i make suggestions to help out and most of them turned out good.i dont make a cent off theese shows and sometimes I wonder why I feel the need to defend them time and time again.Maybe because were so close like a family.Put it this way .I know what weve learned and what we have accomplished.I see 200 fans at our shows screaming.I am passionate about being trained and learning the art of pro wrestling.What a few people on here say shouldnt matter.I respect workers who are out there and have been through it all.I really do.I respect the UWD fans and those who want to give us a chance on here."they are what has made us succesful and not some of you haters"I dont respect or like know it alls who seem to know us better then we do".Remember theese are my opinions ,not uwds or anyone affiliated with them.I also feel some fans dont like to see underdogs doing really well for themselfs so I can understand why some of you might be bitter towards our success and possibly jealous about how far the uwd has come.Im not gloating but with some of you that go to shows that draw half a crowd base then uwd it seems dont understand it.I feel bad for what some of you are missing out .Now if you feel the need to change my words around,make them your own and disect this feel free to .have fun with that.Like I said before I am a very straight forward person and id like to work other shows but if uwd is where i was meant to be then they are doing pretty good to satisfy "my play wrestling needs " for now

"it seems like a few people want to make me look like a piece of shit to stir up trouble. "


Seems as if your doing a pretty good job of this on your own.

hey i have a life outside of wrestling and the hammer so i have enough friends anyway and probably wouldnt want to be seen with some of you anyway.

god bless teddy hart and brian pillman they are my heros

Gaulin, I think you're being a bit too sensitive. And can we stop the whole "We bust our ass so forgive us for everything" thing that junky guys always bring up. Not saying you guys are junky but it's the same thing I heard 7 or 8 years ago from untrained guys who were trying to justify their own existence in the pro wrestling business.


Keep training the right way and you'll laugh at the stuff you wrote on here in a couple of years.

And don't brag about the crowds you're bringing in right now. You've only run a couple of shows and most likely its family and friends. Odds are that it will dwindle until you guys can build up enough experience to carry it on your own. Happens to everyone who jumps from the backyard to the "pro ranks"

Good luck

B@S

Slamtech wrote:

Gaulin, I think you're being a bit too sensitive.

You think that's bad? How about these gems?

gaulin wrote:

No big deal Im going to start hitting up more shows as a fan and since you have always had something against me id love to meet you in person just to hear what you have to say

gaulin wrote:

If you feel the need to attack me personally id just like you to do it to my face if we ever cross paths at a show.My bet is you guys would probably be at a loss for words.

gaulin wrote:

yeah tissues are real good for bloody noses to.Oh wait did I just say that.

enforcer no i dont like you at all and I am going to more shows as a fan now.I was at wcwa last week,ill be at nepw the 10th ,maybe ewa to.There will be a lot of opportunities to meet me .your comments go over the line .i dont cry myself to sleep every night cause of you trust me but when we meet i'll call you out on some of the stuff you said thats for sure.