[Superstar Steve]

Barack Obama made a statement that while its important for immigrants to learn English, it is a good idea for American kids to learn Spanish.

And it sets off a firestorm. Why exactly are many Americans against bilingual education? Seems to me you are better off the more languages you speak. This is a dangerous mentality to me. We are the world's most powerful country, why are we embracing ignorance?

[GrayGhost]

Well. this is an old subject. Im against forcing kids to learn spanish in this country, or any language, other than English. THAT SAID, if they want to learn, and such, its great. Many schools require a second language, at least the basics, as part of a curriculum.

Thing is tho, that isn't enough to be "fluent". I took Spanish for half a year in HS, and also in college, as part of Core classes. I can read some spanish, and write it, but couldn't understand a conversation and such. Some is attributed to over 20 years passing since my last course, but still.

Make it a choice for the kids IMO, or if u want to put it in the core curriculum, thats fine, just don't force them to have to become fluent in it.

[Randy Orton]

GrayGhost wrote:

Well. this is an old subject. Im against forcing kids to learn spanish in this country, or any language, other than English. THAT SAID, if they want to learn, and such, its great. Many schools require a second language, at least the basics, as part of a curriculum. Thing is tho, that isn't enough to be "fluent". I took Spanish for half a year in HS, and also in college, as part of Core classes. I can read some spanish, and write it, but couldn't understand a conversation and such. Some is attributed to over 20 years passing since my last course, but still. Make it a choice for the kids IMO, or if u want to put it in the core curriculum, thats fine, just don't force them to have to become fluent in it.

Why not? Just about every other country does. Most Germans I've met speak German, English and French. Most Europeans speak English in addition to the native language. That gives them an advantage worldwide. What harm does making kids learn Spanish have? More than half the people in this hemisphere speak Spanish, why not give our kids an advantage?

[GrayGhost]

The only issue I have Randy, is the word "MAKING". In our country, Spanish is NOT required to be spoken. Now, I will say, it would be easier and of course useful at times, to know a second language. I just don't feel it should be a requirement, just a choice.

[Randy Orton]

GrayGhost wrote:

The only issue I have Randy, is the word "MAKING". In our country, Spanish is NOT required to be spoken. Now, I will say, it would be easier and of course useful at times, to know a second language. I just don't feel it should be a requirement, just a choice.

So is Math a choice? Is science a choice? Is history a choice?

If we let kids choose their subjects, they would all choose video games, and playing doctor with the first girl to develop tits.

In most high schools, it is required to take a different language, but as you pointed out above, it usually doesn't stick. If they are taught younger and for a longer period of time, its to everybody's advantage.

[Who enjoys Family Circus?]

Half a year of Spanish. Nice effort man.

[GrayGhost]

You've made a good argument. I can't disagree with your reasoning at all.

[Scott Angel]

I tried to learn Spanish in high school. I sucked at it. If I plan to go somewhere spanish was spoken I might try again. Other then that this is an English speaking land. I wouldn't go somewhere without knowing the native tounge. Airgo people should not come here withiut being passable in english.

[GrayGhost]

Scott Angel wrote:

I tried to learn Spanish in high school. I sucked at it. If I plan to go somewhere spanish was spoken I might try again. Other then that this is an English speaking land. I wouldn't go somewhere without knowing the native tounge. Airgo people should not come here withiut being passable in english.

BINGO. That sums up my feelings overall too. But, yeah, things would be easier if we all could speak more languages..

Su Amigo Mejor, Fantasma Gris.

[MAV]

Superstar Steve wrote:

Barack Obama made a statement that while its important for immigrants to learn English, it is a good idea for American kids to learn Spanish. And it sets off a firestorm. Why exactly are many Americans against bilingual education? Seems to me you are better off the more languages you speak. This is a dangerous mentality to me. We are the world's most powerful country, why are we embracing ignorance?

The firestorm is over a lot of conservatives feeling that if you require the schools to teach in both English and Spanish, you are ipso facto giving more incentive for illegal immigrants to come into the country by offering their children more of an educational opportunity. While it is a valid point on it's face...thinking that way doesn't solve the problems we already have.

I tend to look at it this way. I hate the fact we have a Southern border with more holes in it than Swiss cheese. The truth of the matter is, however...even if you somehow slammed the door shut and secured the border, you would still have a MASSIVE contingent of Hispanic speaking illegal citizens here. While under US law they should be deported, we let the problem go on so long that we would have to deport people by the MILLIONS. That's both financially and organizationally impossible. Also...you can see the cultural shift this influx of Latin Americans have already made on our nation, just as the Irish, the Italians and several other ethnic groups have done over the years. It's not necessarily bad, but it is a change we have to wake up to. I may not be all that happy about how the illegal alien situation came about...but it is what it is. We have no time machine to go back and fortify the borders as should have (and should still be) done, so now we have to deal with what is at hand.

In facing that reality, we have to recognize that a cultural shift has taken place within our country, and some things are going to have to change to accommodate that change. Teaching in both Spanish and English is probably unavoidable. Of course, this generates an enormous cost...plus, for the rights of citizenship including education, there should be a method of reimbursement required from illegal aliens on our system. Welcome to America...but their is a toll that each and every one of us that were born here pay for, and those who come here illegally should AT LEAST have to conform to the same requirement.

Oddly enough, the one who came up with what I consider a good form of reimbursement was George Carlin. Carlin suggested that illegal aliens should be put to some form of public service; in his eyes, the military. His line of thinking was if you want to come here so desperately, you must be willing to fight to protect what you seek to indulge in.

I think he was onto something. The prospect of jumping the border might seem a lot more daunting if you knew that if you got bagged, you might find your ass on the front lines somewhere, and probably slow the influx. Those who still did cross would in some form be proving that they are at least in some form willing to contribute to our system as well as take advantage of it.

I think it's a winner of an idea. Some people say that would lead to an "unwilling army". Very often, the same people talk about instituting a draft to restock our dwindling armed forces...What the fuck would be the difference besides skin color at that point?

Mav

[#1SpiderFan]

Randy Orton wrote:

GrayGhost wrote: Well. this is an old subject. Im against forcing kids to learn spanish in this country, or any language, other than English. THAT SAID, if they want to learn, and such, its great. Many schools require a second language, at least the basics, as part of a curriculum. Thing is tho, that isn't enough to be "fluent". I took Spanish for half a year in HS, and also in college, as part of Core classes. I can read some spanish, and write it, but couldn't understand a conversation and such. Some is attributed to over 20 years passing since my last course, but still. Make it a choice for the kids IMO, or if u want to put it in the core curriculum, thats fine, just don't force them to have to become fluent in it. Why not? Just about every other country does. Most Germans I've met speak German, English and French. Most Europeans speak English in addition to the native language. That gives them an advantage worldwide. What harm does making kids learn Spanish have? More than half the people in this hemisphere speak Spanish, why not give our kids an advantage?

Well, mark today on your calendars and call your mommas. For once Randy and I agree. Immigrants to our country should be required to learn our language. However, I think our kids should learn to speak Spanish, one of the most prevalent languages in our country, besides English of course. Besides, Spanish is usually an easy A. Seriously, if we can all communicate, it makes much life easier.

[GrayGhost]

How is Spanish an "easy A"? I got a pair of B's, and I was pretty smart. You gonna basically do your sons Spanish too? hehe.

Yes, tho, this is the melting pot of the world, as the lyric says...Man, this is one great couple of lines..sorry I digress just a tad.

The hawks live upstairs
Where the air is clean in the melting pot
They like to swoop down
And gnaw at your brain in the melting pot

[#1SpiderFan]

GrayGhost wrote:

How is Spanish an "easy A"? I got a pair of B's, and I was pretty smart. You gonna basically do your sons Spanish too? hehe. Yes, tho, this is the melting pot of the world, as the lyric says...Man, this is one great couple of lines..sorry I digress just a tad. The hawks live upstairs Where the air is clean in the melting pot They like to swoop down And gnaw at your brain in the melting pot

I don't do Paul's Spanish homework. For some reason it seems to come easy for him. And I wasn't just talking about him with the A's - I got straight A's in Spanish all through high school, but on the damn Regents exam for some reason a 79%. Damn grammar messed me up.

[GrayGhost]

As one of my Idols used to say..

"HELP ME LORRD"

[Hugh Jass]

GrayGhost wrote:

As one of my Idols used to say.. "HELP ME LORRD"

Lord Alfred Hayes?

[GrayGhost]

haha. no..my Idol used to say "help me Lord" ..the man will always be..

[MAV]

GrayGhost wrote:

haha. no..my Idol used to say "help me Lord" ..the man will always be..

Some how mixing a serious discussion on a subject that has bearing on the immigration problems in this country and Archie Bunker seems...wrong on some level. Not that I didn't like the show-Carroll O'Conner played the perfect undereducated bigot and the show itself was probably one of the top 5 shows ever on television. Remember the one where "the dingbat" invited the swingers over to the house?

Get out of my chair,

Mav

[GrayGhost]

Yeah, one of the "swingers" was Rue McLanahan I think, who later played in Maude and the Golden Girls, and the guy who played her hubby later played Frank Lorenzo on the show.

Sorry to derail it, but it was getting kinda serious, till the Holly family story came in, and kicked it off the track some..Back on track if e'one wants to, but Mav, one last thing..

Don't ever visit a "groinocologist"..that and "prevert" were a couple of my favorite Archie words.

[#1SpiderFan]

GrayGhost wrote:

Yeah, one of the "swingers" was Rue McLanahan I think, who later played in Maude and the Golden Girls, and the guy who played her hubby later played Frank Lorenzo on the show. Sorry to derail it, but it was getting kinda serious, till the Holly family story came in, and kicked it off the track some..Back on track if e'one wants to, but Mav, one last thing.. Don't ever visit a "groinocologist"..that and "prevert" were a couple of my favorite Archie words.

Ghost, if you will reread the way the posts went, you were the one who brought my family into it. All I said was Spanish was usually an easy A.
You dragged them into it, not me.

[GrayGhost]

Hmm..I apologize, you are right. Of course, you kept rolling on it, so naanny naaany naaany

Fantasma gris..

Hoy es un dia muy shittio..hehe.

[#1SpiderFan]

GrayGhost wrote:

Hmm..I apologize, you are right. Of course, you kept rolling on it, so naanny naaany naaany Fantasma gris.. Hoy es un dia muy shittio..hehe.

Una mas dia shittio. Pero, manas es viernes. ARRIBA!!!!!!!!!!!! No trabajo para me Sabado!

[GrayGhost]

Tomorrow is Friday, and no work on Saturday. Cool, have a good day off.

[#1SpiderFan]

Muchos gracias, Senor Ghost!

[Kudo Driver]

So many kids have already picked up words and phrases in Spanish because they're parked in front of the TV. "Dora the Explorer" throws out all kinds of stuff. I learned how to count to ten in Spanish from "Sesame Street" as a little kid. Now I pick up snippets from helping my munchkins with their Spanish packets in study hall, but the way it's presented makes the program destined to fail. My kids have 22 days of Spanish per school year, from sixth through eighth grade. That's it. Once they come back to the class in the next school year, 99% of what they were taught has evaporated from their brains. 66 days of Spanish in an entire middle school career may leave them just enough to know how to say "hello" and "thank you". The Spanish teacher is frustrated with the program and I don't blame her one bit.

The earlier kids begin a language, the more likely they are to retain it. I would love for my school system to start Spanish with the first graders, using a system similar to Rosetta Stone, where words are equated with images rather than their English equivalents. The government is so concerned with American kids "falling behind the world" that garbage like No Child Left Behind is pushed on schools, but this is a simple way for kids to become more literate by seeing connections between English and Spanish, and for them to be better prepared for the global workforce. If the rest of the "first-world" countries are at least bilingual, why would we hold ourselves back? It seems both ignorant and arrogant to me.

[MAV]

Kudo Driver wrote:

So many kids have already picked up words and phrases in Spanish because they're parked in front of the TV. "Dora the Explorer" throws out all kinds of stuff. I learned how to count to ten in Spanish from "Sesame Street" as a little kid. Now I pick up snippets from helping my munchkins with their Spanish packets in study hall, but the way it's presented makes the program destined to fail. My kids have 22 days of Spanish per school year, from sixth through eighth grade. That's it. Once they come back to the class in the next school year, 99% of what they were taught has evaporated from their brains. 66 days of Spanish in an entire middle school career may leave them just enough to know how to say "hello" and "thank you". The Spanish teacher is frustrated with the program and I don't blame her one bit. The earlier kids begin a language, the more likely they are to retain it. I would love for my school system to start Spanish with the first graders, using a system similar to Rosetta Stone, where words are equated with images rather than their English equivalents. The government is so concerned with American kids "falling behind the world" that garbage like No Child Left Behind is pushed on schools, but this is a simple way for kids to become more literate by seeing connections between English and Spanish, and for them to be better prepared for the global workforce. If the rest of the "first-world" countries are at least bilingual, why would we hold ourselves back? It seems both ignorant and arrogant to me.

As you can probably tell...I grudgingly agree with you. I refuse to call it "bilingual", however. If we were truly teaching children the benefits of being bilingual, we'd be making learning a second language required but there would be a choice between more than just one language and let the parents determine which language the kid should learn. What we are really doing is accommodating a new dynamic of the society that is the USA. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but that's what it boils down to. Calling it an effort for our children to be bilingual is a sales tactic…and I prefer the truth. We wouldn't even be talking about this had we secured our borders years ago like we should have. We didn't...so here we are, and we need to adapt. Trying to stonewall and be a stubborn idiot by not adapting is not a solution, however...nor is it right to do in some lame brained effort to turn back the clock.

Mav